yes. bc "jap" was coined during world war 2, often connected to a derogatory adjective, many prefer, if you are shortening japanese or japan, jpn instead. they should really have all spell checks change jap to jpn

I've heard about that World War-thingy too, in history class (long long ago!!!^^) I wouldn't ever call japanese people Jap, I don't even call then JPN!

I have made that mistake long ago but since then I use Jp for shorthand. But I must say, to lash out as someone for using it may make you both guilty of ignorance. Not everyone is aware of the derogatory connotation of the abbreviated form therefore the first warning should always be in the nature of awareness and not accusation. Also understand the context of the word. Without prior knowledge of such controversies, shorthands such as Jp and JPN are not always clear to the reader as much as Jap although it would be prudent to write the whole word out. To ask one for tolerance, you must first show tolerance. Asking nicely goes along way, otherwise the next time he/she uses the controversial abbreviation, it will be for real.

i dont see how jap is in insult, look how well japan has been doing for itself over the last 20 years.
what kind of an insult is: You come from a rich country that is kilometers ahead of my own!..loser.

thats like me getting insulted for someone calling me a rich white guy.

heck im trying to learn japanese so i can understand all those cool japanese sites.
alot of these insults are losing power, ex: black people = N****.
if that is so bad, then why do all the kids over hear want to be rap stars? why do they dress up like their favorite black singers?
all these slurs were started by the white guys, who thought they were "better" at the time, and now look, all us white people want to be you!

when i think Japan, i think the future.

It has nothing to do with how well Japan is doing financially.

It has to do with history.

Read the 16 previous pages and you'll understand.

RaZe wrote:

alot of these insults are losing power, ex: black people = N****. if that is so bad, then why do all the kids over hear want to be rap stars? why do they dress up like their favorite black singers?

Because they think it's cool. Rappers have money. Therefore if I dress like one and rap like one, someone will come and sign them to a contract.

As for as the term "Jap" is concerned, this is an article from 2003 that somewhat sheds light on the situation. Link to article

RaZe wrote:

alot of these insults are losing power, ex: black people = N****. if that is so bad, then why do all the kids over hear want to be rap stars? why do they dress up like their favorite black singers? all these slurs were started by the white guys, who thought they were "better" at the time, and now look, all us white people want to be you!

While some might say that mere words in and of themselves have no power to harm, the truth is they do. The word 'Jap' is an insult no matter how successful the Japanese people are. The 'N' word is now and fovermore will be an insult to call a Black person. Just because it is used in a rap or a song doesn't change its' historic meaning or significance. The 'N' word is now and in the past been used by Black folks as a form of endearment between ourselves and only between ourselves. Trust me if you walked up to a Black person and tried to even jokingly call that person an 'N' you would probably regret it for a long, long time. Just because rappers are imitated around the world doesn't change the meaning, the pain, the lynchings, the killings, the cruelty, the apartheid, the brutality, the segregation, the slavery that the 'N' word brings with it. So yes the history of a word may be in the past but its connotations are still alive and strong in the present. Perhaps the reason I feel so strongly about the use of racial slurs like 'Jap' or the 'N' word is because I am an African-American woman who remembers my ancestors with dignity and respect and all the other ancestors who suffered due to these mere words.

Wow, 17 pages of this discussion? I stopped reading after the 1st, 2cd, & 17th.

Abbreviation:
For the record, the word "Jap" does not represent a philosophy or seperate idea. It is simply the naturally occuring abreviation for a long, multiple syllable word like Japanese, much like "Brit" is short for British, or like "Mike" (my name) is short for Michael. This may help explain why so many people use the word online without ever knowing it's supposed "wrongness", well, that and the fact most people online aren't over 60 years old and couldn't have experienced WWII. :-)

History:
For those that are citing WWII usage, please remember that the Japanese people themselves are not hated, just like the German people are not hated. The idea of Nazism was the thing that was hated, not the people, and the same went for the philosophy that believed the enslavement of Koreans, and the rape and slaughter of hundreds of thousands of Chinese was right. But that was more than half a century ago and most Japanese people alive today are no more culpable than you or I.

Take the power back:
What benefit is there in giving up good language territory over to haters. The saying "take the power back" is used to describe power or territory that was lost to another group through acquiescense. This may help explain to some the "supposedly" incongruous behavior of blacks that use the word "nigga", or of homosexuals that call their annual San Francisco parade "Queerific". Censorship is NOT a solution.

Right Speech: (Buddist Path)
It is you and I who are making the effort to learn about other languages and cultures, so why should we give up even a single good word like "Jap" over to those that hate. I say let them use "Jpn" or some other weak association that will match their weak beliefs and weak moral character. We should not be passive here because without our actions (Right Effort) nothing can be achieved.

Arcaneman wrote:

Wow, 17 pages of this discussion? I stopped reading after the 1st, 2cd, & 17th.

Hi Arcaneman,

While I understand your points, perhaps you might take the time to read all of the pages here.

I am a Buddhist and I believe in "Cause and Effect" so if I were to disrepect another human being by using a term like "Jap" then I would disrespect all human beings by not showing them the dignity and respect they are all worthy of. "Jap" is a term that in and of itself may have no power, just as no one word does, but it carries with it too much disrepect, too much negative history and negative karma for me to use it at all. Japanese people are not "Japs." They never were and never will be in my book.

Arcaneman wrote:

Right Speech: (Buddist Path) It is you and I who are making the effort to learn about other languages and cultures, so why should we give up even a single good word like "Jap" over to those that hate. I say let them use "Jpn" or some other weak association that will match their weak beliefs and weak moral character. We should not be passive here because without our actions (Right Effort) nothing can be achieved.

is it a truly buddist way to call another person's way of thinking 'weak'?
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Here's my Facebook page:
http://www.facebook.com/home.php?ref=logo#/kwan1?ref=profile

Regardless of your own discernments, if say Japanese people don't like being called Japs then don't do it. Similarly, if you have a nickname you don't like, you expect people not to call you by that name. Respect other people, respect their wishes, get over yourself, lets all get along.

Enna wrote:

While I understand your points, perhaps you might take the time to read all of the pages here.

Hi Enna,

I probably should have read all 17 pages before posting, which is why I prefaced that I hadn't read them, but if you say they're worth reading then maybe I'll go back and look at them.

I think I understand your point too and am glad this isn't turning into an arguement. If someone feels unconfortable using the word "Jap" that's fine. I'm simply reminding people that it isn't a word itself but an abbreviation of a word, Japanese, and that every new student of Japanese isn't going to be familiar with the idea that Jap/Japanese is bad, unless they are really, really old students. :-)

niko2x wrote:

is it a truly buddist way to call another person's way of thinking 'weak'?

Good catch niko2x, almost. :-)

If someone were to take my words out of the context of the entire post, then the word "weak" might be twisted to seem improper. Here is a short rundown of how I said it, compared on my limited understanding of the tenets of Right Speech, IANAB.

-I did not lie, nor intentionally mislead.
-I was not malicious, nor trying to hurt feelings.
-My statement was not idle, nor without purpose.

Arcaneman wrote:

Hi Enna, I probably should have read all 17 pages before posting, which is why I prefaced that I hadn't read them, but if you say they're worth reading then maybe I'll go back and look at them. I think I understand your point too and am glad this isn't turning into an arguement. If someone feels unconfortable using the word "Jap" that's fine. I'm simply reminding people that it isn't a word itself but an abbreviation of a word, Japanese, and that every new student of Japanese isn't going to be familiar with the idea that Jap/Japanese is bad, unless they are really, really old students. :-)

Hi Arcaneman,

Nice to meet you. That is one thing I enjoy about this board, most of the member's here seem to be able to express themselves without it turning into an argument. Well at least that has been my experience, so far.

I don't think you have to be really, really old to be familiar with the derogatory meaning of the term "Jap", you just have to be be aware of history's influence on our current environment, and also be sensitve to words that might be offensive to others, even though they don't seem that way to you, thats' all.

Ok, I've read all 17 pages and am kind of sad, so here's an antecedent that's kind of funny.


South Park:
A scene from the South Park movie, when they think they are going to die, Cartman apoligizes to Kyle for offensive things he's said.
-Cartman- "Kyle, all those times I said you were a big dumb Jew I didn't mean it, you're not a Jew."
-Kyle- "Yes I am! I am a Jew, Cartman!"
-Cartman- "No, no Kyle, don't be so hard on yourself."
(Note that they both understand Jew is a normal abbreviation for Jewish, and not a magical coincidence.)


Foreigner:
A previous poster mentioned the word gaijin which as far as I can tell means outside-person or foreigner. You can imagine, that while foreigner is not a bad word, that to the mostly homogeneous Japanese, anything foreign might be considered inferior on at least a general level. Cartman and Kyle have different values, and those values affect their bias regarding sterotypical Jewish behaviors.


Ethnocentrism:
Another previous poster brought up the concept of ethnocentrism, which I'm grateful for because I don't think we should equate being different with being bad. I find it helps to learn concepts such as these so that we can all be more aware of our own bias, and not just mouth-off about how ignorant foreigners are.

You know what I find really offensive?
Anything.. make that ANYTHING said by Shintaro Ishihara�@�Ό��T���Y , the residing mayor of tokyo.

Being a right wing politician and novelist/writer - he will try hard to make every non-japanese person uncomfortable. Can think of many scenarios where he had openly rejected the americans, mocked the french and denigrated the chinese recently. Tends to be disrespectful to outsiders.

Even INSISTS on calling the chinese (of which I am one) 'chink' - a term which has past connotations as it was a period in history that a chinese would rather forget.


####################


Here is what I am trying to lead to.

You know what? I am not actually offended by the term chink itself or asian or oriental or china man or chinese or gook (chinese get labelled this sometimes), because most of the time the person saying doesn't know he is being stupid.


I am OFFENDED by Shintaro because he is an intellectual but persists in his way of being ultra derogatory to chinese people, which he shouldn't as he holds a very influential, high position being the freaking Mayor of Tokyo. In fact a group of Japanese people locally are very weary of this psychotic man.... fearing that he will bring war to Japan by his insensitive ways. Certainly not winning any international allies with his antics.



This MAN is bad... has a bad heart.



I really suggest people dont take note of whatever implicit bad feelings from words that sprung from a huge historical mistake - afterall ME being a Chinese and where millions of us were killed or raped by Japanese soldiers during WWII do not don't even hold grudge against Japan anymore.... incidentally this furiosity was re-ignited because Japan politicians have been ill-informed in visiting the war-criminal temple, bringing out non-accurate history text books and making bold statements by scuba diving in some remote island on a border of dispute (by yet again, Mr Shintaro-the-very-Childish-Shxt-Stirrer)





Anyway, I agree that JAP should be offensive to Japanese people when put into historical context, but from my observation probably more so to those living near Pearl or Hawaii than those from Mainland Japan. I have used the word Jap many times whilst I was working in Japan and no one even took notice of it.... most in mainland Japan aren't that sensitive when its short for Japan...


Afterall the Modern Japanese language itself is full of abbreviation of which syllables are cropped.... funnily enough the first one I probably picked up and was confused for a while was people saying Kimu-Tak(u) rather than saying Kimura Takuya for actor �ؑ���Ɓ@....

Omotesando wrote:

You know what I find really offensive? Anything.. make that ANYTHING said by Shintaro Ishihara�@�Ό��T���Y , the residing mayor of tokyo.

that guy's a bitch.....moreover, it's fascists like him that led japan into suffering delusions of grandeur in 30s and 40s which eventually lead to the country's ignominuous defeat at the end of WWII.

people are stupid....what can you say. despite his high profile post he doesn't speak for the japanese people, i would imagine....

Hi everyone. Im new at jdorama but was totally interested in this topic so here goes my first post ( sorry for my bad english im Argentine, thats in latin america). Saying any of those words is wrong not because of the word them selfves but because of what people feel when they are said. But i must say that i could have made the mistake of saying does words just because down here in the edge of the world does words dont mean the same. I mean we dont call dark skinned people nor african americans nor N....(bad word) we just call them black people or (negros whick i know it sounds a lot like the bad word but it does not mean that in our daily life spanish. which for everyones information is diferent from lets say mexican spanish) we also sometimes call japanese people Japo... ( abreviation of japones which is the spanish word for japanese) i myself could have used de word J... with out any bad intentions. We have to deal with this words, cause if i had said de j... word someone woud have probably given me a hard time without knowing that i mean no disrispect. And that is Bad too, no one owns language giving me a hard time without really knowing the intentions behind my words is also discrimitation. or is the whole world supposed to know that in the US those words are bad. cause each time you speak of latin you forget that we are different people not all latin america is the same an some of us find that term derrogative but ive bet you didnt know that but thats ok cause if someone calls me latin i just know that they most problably dont mean anything bad. So my point is that the words should not be condemned but instead intencion an racist thinking should be erased. well sorry everyone probably no one will be able to understand anything because of my poor english. thanx for reading . and I love asian culture specially japanese/japonesa. go Nihon.

guess you won't see a self-intro "hi what's up folks, i'm a jap"
"it is not so" and "we do not have any".

Very interesting posts.
Thanks to those (recent posters) who posted their views. I enjoyed reading them.
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A friend sent me this link, a poster from WWII. It should just be a mild representation of what actually happened in those days.

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