ruroshin wrote:

thanks for the links prince. You'd think the feds have more serious crimes to go after than people doing fansub work

I don't know how the law works here, but during my case, I was told that as long there are already a media about a specific series out, it's already againts the copyright. Thus I lost my hearing, so either deported back before finishing my uni or warning and delete the whole content. I choosed the later of course.

And coincidencely, there are 3 students from my uni that got warned for having anime fansubs in their comp in the dorm.

*shrug* For now, I am choosing the safe side.

woah dude. anime fansubs in their comps? how did the university find out.... scary thought.

Prince wrote:

I don't know how the law works here, but during my case, I was told that as long there are already a media about a specific series out, it's already againts the copyright.

This is dire news.

I always thought, at least in the US. that it was <u>convention</u>, not law, that fansub groups only release media that is currently unlicensed. I've never heard of any actual law that applies to this situation.

In general, the fansub groups comply, because they want to exist in as harmonious a relationship as possible with the publishers, and in return, the publishers look the other way when fansubs publish one of their works that is currently unlicensed. They know they benefit from the fansub work because it builds up their fan base: FOR FREE.

I thought it had always been this way. Did I get it all wrong?

I need to read up on this ...

I do think that there are some circumstances where a fansub for licensed materials is justifiable, as in the case where the official subtitles are crap, or missing nice extras, like karaoke for the themesong.

vibius wrote:

I always thought, at least in the US. that it was <u>convention</u>, not law, that fansub groups only release media that is currently unlicensed. I've never heard of any actual law that applies to this situation.

However, isn't EVERYTHING licensed? Just because something like Long Vacation isn't sold in the United States doesn't make it un-licensed. That's why fansubbing AND fanworks are illegal -- FUJI-TV licensed the series under the Japanese government, and is protected by that body. The United States has an agreement with other nations like Japan where copyrights, trademarks, and patents are internationally recognized and enforced. This way, FUJI-TV doesn't have to file with every single country on planet Earth for every series they make.

That shoots down the thought where "Hey, Long Vacation isn't available in the US, so it's okay for me to copy it." No no no no no! That's NOT okay! Same thing with Hello Kitty... Harley Davidson couldn't make a Hello Kitty motorcycle without first licensing the character from Sanrio, who is based out in Japan. Even if Sanrio didn't file anything with the United States in terms of copyrights, trademarks or patents, Harley Davidson must still become a licensee under Japanese law before the company can use the Hello Kitty trademark for their needs. Otherwise, under the agreement between the United States and Japan, Harley Davidson can still be liable for trademark infringement under U.S. law.

And with that, I think Canada's interpretation of copyright law is full of crap! What gives Canada the right to take U.S. copyright protected products and allow Canadian citizens to breech the agreement?

--- groink

groink wrote:

However, isn't EVERYTHING licensed? Just because something like Long Vacation isn't sold in the United States doesn't make it un-licensed. That's why fansubbing AND fanworks are illegal

Well, that's my point, kinda. I believe fansubbing is currently considered infringement, but the publishers, by convention, rarely pursue remedy. I believe this is because they benefit from the relationship. Fansubbers know this, and so they try not to antagonize the publishers, which is why they have the convention to stop distributing when the media is licensed locally.

Well, that was my dim understanding of the situation. Did I get it wrong?

I just hadn't heard of anyone being targetted for distributing fansubs before, so I was a little surprised. But maybe it happens more than I know.

Ahh...copyrights and infrigements by fansubs....Brings back thememories...This is a problem the anime club I used to be president of back in school ran up against (and lost).

Technically, the (Berndhart?) Convention states that member countries will uphold the copyrights of works copyrighted in their native country. And while it is a convention, not a law, the US has an interest in upholding copyrights for other countries if it wants its own copyrights protected (Hollywood movies, for example) which are being pirated elsewhere.

Since the anime industry has really blossomed in the US, it has become more of an issue beacuse of the moneys that could be possibly be generated through legal sales of commercially subtitled works. I think TV dramas (not movies) and other television shows are probably "safe" for the time being b/c the market impact is so minimal at this point (esp TV variety shows which are unsubbed for the most part). Movies....are iffy....

So, yeah, pretty much everything is illegal unless you get consent from the copyright holder because of the widespread distribution and viewing. (In those days, Japanese companies were still ignoring US fans for the most part...not so these days...Just look at how Bandai put out the "cease and desist" for fansubs of Wolf's Rain and Gundam Seed). Anyways, the fact that fansubbers are not making any money off of their works is not really the issue. Even the VCD versions you get from Asia are (for the most part) technically illegal because the original Japanese companies aren't getting paid any royalties (which is why they are so cheap).

Technically, I think the only way a fansub is legal is if you own a copy of the original work and subtitle it for your own personal use (i.e. do not distribute it or hold group viewings of it).

Well, what about the "for educational use" loophole in the copyright laws? That doesn't really hold water unless you have proof that there is actually a class headed by an instructor and where participants are gathered through some enrollment process.

Bah...

mizune wrote:

Technically, I think the only way a fansub is legal is if you own a copy of the original work and subtitle it for your own personal use (i.e. do not distribute it or hold group viewings of it).

Sure, as I said, I believe they are considered to be infringing.

But I still want to know if I understood the convention correctly ... that fansubbers voluntarily stop distributing when a work is locally licensed, and the publishers in turn would look the other way. They both know that it is technically against the law.

Also, I'd never heard of an actual case where someone was targetted for distributing a fansub. It is unusual, isn't it?

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//krunk (^_^x)

vibius wrote:

Sure, as I said, I believe they are considered to be infringing. But I still want to know if I understood the convention correctly ... that fansubbers voluntarily stop distributing when a work is locally licensed, and the publishers in turn would look the other way. They both know that it is technically against the law. Also, I'd never heard of an actual case where someone was targetted for distributing a fansub. It is unusual, isn't it?

it is not so much they will look the other way. initially the father animation company doesn't do anything because is since the anime in that country isn't licensed yet, it's a way of free publicity. the potential licensing companies also appreciates their work to increase the fanbase. it's just so that when the anime does get licensed, now there's a conflict in interest between the fansubbers and licensing companies, which prompts the licensing company to go after fansubbers. that's why fansubbing group stops.

//krunk (^_^x)

vibius wrote:

But I still want to know if I understood the convention correctly ... that fansubbers voluntarily stop distributing when a work is locally licensed, and the publishers in turn would look the other way. They both know that it is technically against the law. Also, I'd never heard of an actual case where someone was targetted for distributing a fansub. It is unusual, isn't it?

You are talking about fansubber conventions. I am talking about international treaty type conventions.

A lot of fansubbers do take responsibility for their work and will shut down their own distro of something that has been licensed. But not all of them... Also, just because the group has stopped distro does not mean that their work will not continue to spread. It is really out of their control once it leaves their hands.

However, publishers have not agreed to anything, so their willingness to turn a blind eye is totally their choice, whether through ignorance of the fact that their work is being fansubbed or just willingness to let it go because it is "small potatoes" i.e. not worth spending the lawyer and court fees to do anything official.

If it is something where there is a potential impact on a market where money can be made, say on anime and manga which has become very popular in recent years, the story changes. Because of the rising popularity of these products and the success of commercially translated products, I think it has become an actual issue concern to original copyright holders. But this is generally only true for anime and manga. Like I said before, I think the asian TV drama market is still too undeveloped. But if I can go to a Walmart and find anime and manga...we are talking major market potential.

I think the reason why Japan generally ignores southeast asia pirating is because those countries either don't have the appropriate laws or willingness/capability to enforce them. Plus Japan has little leverage to get them to try and enforce them. Not so with the US.

where do you guys go to get torrents now that daddicts is down?

hey ruroshin, i can host d-addicts if you want. i sent you an email... i run kpopper.com so i had to get a dedicated server for it. I can get you 200gb bandwidth and mysql if you want for $30/month.

But i really want d-addicts to become a part of kpopper, so that its a feature that is found on my site.. so you would be one of the sections up at kpopper.com If you want to join kpopper, d-addicts will be located at something like d-addicts.kpopper.com ... if you decide to join kpopper i can get you hosting for $20 since you become part of the site

anyways get back to me... [email protected]

kpopper wrote:

hey ruroshin, i can host d-addicts if you want. i sent you an email... i run kpopper.com so i had to get a dedicated server for it. I can get you 200gb bandwidth and mysql if you want for $30/month. But i really want d-addicts to become a part of kpopper, so that its a feature that is found on my site.. so you would be one of the sections up at kpopper.com If you want to join kpopper, d-addicts will be located at something like d-addicts.kpopper.com ... if you decide to join kpopper i can get you hosting for $20 since you become part of the site anyways get back to me... [email protected]

thanks for the offer kpopper but I've forked out money for dedicated hosting already. Well if things don't work out with the new place I may look you up.

yep no problems! keep up the good work with d-addicts! if you have money probs i can do it cheaper LoL.

i hope to see d-addicts back again. are you able to share the code for d-addicts tracker thing with me? but yeh i can perfectly understand it if you cant.

kpopper wrote:

yep no problems! keep up the good work with d-addicts! if you have money probs i can do it cheaper LoL. i hope to see d-addicts back again. are you able to share the code for d-addicts tracker thing with me? but yeh i can perfectly understand it if you cant.

tracker code? tracker I was using was dehacked's php tracker which you can download for free. http://dehacked.2y.net:6969/

ruroshin wrote:

thanks for the offer kpopper but I've forked out money for dedicated hosting already. Well if things don't work out with the new place I may look you up.

glad to see that things are starting to fall together. course, ya know, once you start up again it'l be like the flood gates opening after a drought

ap

In Canada, there is a group that advocates copyright. So much so that they are able to add taxes to all recording media. Therefore there is a arguement that people are already paying a fee to copy music (especially Canadian music) Just a few months ago they were pushing for an increase in tax. I suppose if you push the envelope to far something like yesterdays ruling in Canada happened. i.e. uploading music files are considered legal. The example given by the judge is in a library there is a photocopier. The books there are copyright of course, but it is not the responsibility of the library to prevent copying from happening.

koolaid wrote:

So much so that they are able to add taxes to all recording media. Therefore there is a argument that people are already paying a fee to copy music (especially Canadian music)

To explain this further:

"The regulators cited a long-standing rule in Canada, in which most copying for personal use was allowed. To repay artists and record labels for revenue lost by this activity, the government imposes a fee on blank tapes, CDs and even hard disk-based MP3 players such as Apple Computer's iPod, and distributes that revenue to copyright holders."
-- CNet, March 31, 2004 http://news.com.com/2100-1027_3-5182641.html

In the United States, they do the same exact thing. In addition, we also pay the tax on the recording devices themselves, including VCRs and tape recorders. That's what brewed up that contraversy of using PCs as a recording device. The claim was that people buying CD-ROM burners and PCs equipped with those devices weren't paying the tax.

--- groink

We call it "copyright" fees over here, it's been used since for so long. We're feeding the drunken artistes The fee is unreasonably high, a 1 € for blank dvd and a 0.25 € for cdr! Therefore many ppl buy the blank media from either Germany or the UK, none of the countries have copyright fess implemented the blank media. Hopefully won't be implemented in the future.

They're talking about increasing those fees in our country so now the price of blank cd-r, which I need tons of, went up