Joined: 13 Apr 2007 Posts: 12121 Location: It was fun while it lasted. Country:
Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 3:24 pm Post subject:
Saburo wrote:
Baseball historians are still naming Walter Johnson as the all-time greatest right-handed pitcher in MLB history. He sure has the numbers but they were accrued in the Woodrow Wilson administration. How can you compare that era to today?
Johnson did face the likes of Ruth, Cobb, Gehrig, Foxx, etc. And spending his entire career with a team that almost never was in contention (I think the Senators went to the World Series twice while Johnson played) he still got 20 or more wins almost every year and with Cy Young is the only other pitcher to win over 400. This what Cobb said about Johnson,
"The first time I faced him, I watched him take that easy windup. And then something went past me that made me flinch. The thing just hissed with danger. We couldn't touch him... every one of us knew we'd met the most powerful arm ever turned loose in a ball park."
Johnson did face the likes of Ruth, Cobb, Gehrig, Foxx, etc. And spending his entire career with a team that almost never was in contention (I think the Senators went to the World Series twice while Johnson played)
Was it twice?
I've been watching my Baseball DVDs and I thought they mentioned that they only went once to the World Series... And won.
Joined: 28 Aug 2003 Posts: 122 Location: Hawaii Country:
Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 11:53 pm Post subject:
Big Train was in the Series twice: '24 against the NY Giants (won in 7) and in '25 against the Pirates (lost in 7).
I'm hesitant to rubber stamp Johnson as "The Greatest" on pure instinct, despite his numbers (and his numbers are just INSANE). Ever seen film of him pitching? Can you imagine a modern pitcher throwing with that motion, seemingly all upper body and whipping the ball at 90MPH+ constantly? I'd love to see pitch count and radar gun reading from the HOF pitchers of the dead ball era.
Greatest lefty... hmm. Spahn, Grove, Koufax, Big Unit. Meal Ticket, Lefty Carlton. Those are the names that come to mind. _________________
Joined: 28 Aug 2003 Posts: 122 Location: Hawaii Country:
Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 12:06 am Post subject:
So the Yanks get CC and are reportedly going after another of the high-profile FA pitchers left: Burnett, Lowe, even Ben Sheets.
Why haven't they gotten Teixeira yet? Instead, it's probably Mike Cameron to hold down CF for the time being. Watch out Yanks, here comes Boston! _________________
Joined: 28 Aug 2003 Posts: 122 Location: Hawaii Country:
Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 12:13 am Post subject:
I'd keep Randy Johnson in the discussion for greatest pitcher ever, lefty or righty, only because his peak seasons are as good as anyone (save for the dead ball era of the last century).
His Cy Young-winning seasons are sick: twenty-wins plus, 2.50 ERA or lower, 275K+. All done in a hitters park (what's it called now? Chase Field?) in a hitter's era (league ERA must have approached 4.50 in the late 90s-early aughts). _________________
Joined: 13 Apr 2007 Posts: 12121 Location: It was fun while it lasted. Country:
Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 1:20 am Post subject:
Saburo wrote:
Greatest lefty... hmm. Spahn, Grove, Koufax, Big Unit. Meal Ticket, Lefty Carlton. Those are the names that come to mind.
Glad you mentioned Carlton. IMHO the greatest season by any pitcher EVER was his '72 season with the Phillies. He goes 27-10, ERA under 2 on a last place team that only won 59 games total. How the hell did he do it? Without Carlton, that team would have made a serious run at the '62 Mets for worst ever.
Glad you mentioned Carlton. IMHO the greatest season by any pitcher EVER was his '72 season with the Phillies. He goes 27-10, ERA under 2 on a last place team that only won 59 games total. How the hell did he do it? Without Carlton, that team would have made a serious run at the '62 Mets for worst ever.
The same can sorta be said for the punchless 1960's Dodgers... There was that running joke about Koufax pitching a no-hitter and Drysdale asking "Did we win?"
Joined: 28 Aug 2003 Posts: 122 Location: Hawaii Country:
Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 10:52 am Post subject:
Agreed on Carlton's 1972 season with the Phils. I'd prolly rate it better than any of Koufax's Cy Young seasons (62, 65, 66) and would say he should have won the NL MVP that season over Johnny Bench (there's no way a pitcher on a last-place team would be voted MVP unless he won 30). _________________
Joined: 28 Aug 2003 Posts: 122 Location: Hawaii Country:
Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 2:26 pm Post subject:
OK so the winter meetings have come and gone. Where's Tex going?
Yankees REALLY should blow their wad on the first baseman but it appears they want Burnett, Lowe or both. Do they really think Nick Swisher is good enuff for first base?
Also read the Nats are offering eight years, $160 million. Orioles also in the mix (hometown team), although for less moolah. I would think the Angels need him more than the Yanks, or the Red Sox even. (Where does Lowell go if Tex signs with Boston?) _________________
Joined: 28 Aug 2003 Posts: 122 Location: Hawaii Country:
Posted: Thu Dec 25, 2008 12:38 am Post subject:
In other news Mark Tex gets signed by the Yankees for a buncha years and a lotta-buncha-zillion buck$. No one thought the Nats or Baltimore Birds had any chance but once again the New England Sox were pickpocketed once again. And the RAGE from the Nation ensues once again. Rich kids whining, and your American League champions play in a shitty dome that's probably worse than the one they just blew up in Indy.
Still, it's baseball -- the only game I love. And last I heard they play the games for real in April.
Joined: 28 Aug 2003 Posts: 122 Location: Hawaii Country:
Posted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 12:10 am Post subject:
The Unit will get his five or so wins needed for 300 if his back holds up.
And get ready for RICKEY's Hall-of-Fame selection later today! Jim Rice will likely be selected as well, which you KNOW will set the blogosphere off (me, included). Why not Blyleven? _________________
Joined: 28 Aug 2003 Posts: 122 Location: Hawaii Country:
Posted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 6:56 am Post subject:
Saburo wrote:
And get ready for RICKEY's Hall-of-Fame selection later today! Jim Rice will likely be selected as well, which you KNOW will set the blogosphere off (me, included). Why not Blyleven?
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Without Carlton, that team would have made a serious run at the '62 Mets for worst ever.
He doesn't belong in a nursing home yet. 
